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Post by Emily on May 11, 2010 7:55:32 GMT
Come now, wanderer, it's not that type of story. We're not the kind of girls who would take our lighthearted comedy and throw it off the deep end into horrifying grisly melodrama.
Are we, Alice? ARE WE.
As for 'wolfboy', I needed a derogatary nickname that would place him at the end of her list, and 'scooby-doo' had already been given to Jin. Did you consider she might hold on to his number for nefarious purposes? There are a lot of ways you can make someones life unpleasant if you have their mobile number. Not telling you whether any of the points in your review are right or wrong, just throwing out other angles for you to consider.
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Post by tangent on May 11, 2010 10:39:37 GMT
Why Em, I thought you knew. Critics are always right. Even when the artist, writer, or creator states otherwise. =^-^= (They did that riff on some Rodney Dangerfield college movie. And also in RL some shmuck of a critic stated "X is Y!" and when the writer spoke up and said "Um, that's not the case at all. You're reading too much into that..." the critic told the writer "you're wrong!" which shows the utter hubris that some critics have.)
Personally? I know I'm wrong more often than not. But that's half the fun of it. That and making people think. ^^
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Post by wanderer on May 11, 2010 11:18:59 GMT
Come now, wanderer, it's not that type of story. We're not the kind of girls who would take our lighthearted comedy and throw it off the deep end into horrifying grisly melodrama. Are we, Alice? ARE WE. Well, not that I've seen so far, but I still haven't read the prequel fiction stuff, so I can't say for sure. Besides, I honestly wasn't thinking about it in terms of whether you two would write a story that did that, but rather just on how likely it would be, realistically speaking, for them to treat her that way. I heard of a case like that. Such arrogance.
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Post by Ally on May 11, 2010 13:11:08 GMT
Come now, wanderer, it's not that type of story. We're not the kind of girls who would take our lighthearted comedy and throw it off the deep end into horrifying grisly melodrama. Are we, Alice? ARE WE. Not at all. Never. Everything I write is lovely and no-one ever gets so much as a paper cut. ( wanderer - IBYKS did get pretty dark, and my solo stories have a habit of ending up as one long game of "How can I ruin my characters' lives EVEN MORE?" ^_^)
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Post by tangent on May 11, 2010 13:24:50 GMT
Yes, but there's dark, and there's having a main character sexually assaulted by a demonically-possessed character, the possessed character being killed, but the poor girl getting pregnant from the assault and then after giving birth killing herself soon after the Devil (pretending to be someone else) gets yet another girl pregnant.
Though I never did get beyond the first scene of that. Too long. Even after cutting half of the subplots. ^^;;
(Happy ending at the end though - the main girl wakes up, finds out it's a premonition, and stops the initial rape/pregnancy from happening. Then she and two other girls go off with the other male lead for a long vacation in South America.)
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Post by wanderer on May 11, 2010 21:50:33 GMT
Yes, but there's dark, and there's having a main character sexually assaulted by a demonically-possessed character, the possessed character being killed, but the poor girl getting pregnant from the assault and then after giving birth killing herself soon after the Devil (pretending to be someone else) gets yet another girl pregnant. Though I never did get beyond the first scene of that. Too long. Even after cutting half of the subplots. ^^;; (Happy ending at the end though - the main girl wakes up, finds out it's a premonition, and stops the initial rape/pregnancy from happening. Then she and two other girls go off with the other male lead for a long vacation in South America.) ...And what was this from?
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Post by tangent on May 12, 2010 3:21:50 GMT
Fanfic that never got beyond the first scene.
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Post by wanderer on May 12, 2010 5:55:16 GMT
Your imagination is a little disturbing, sometimes.
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Post by tangent on May 12, 2010 12:57:55 GMT
I can visualize, with my eyes open (and seeing it superimposed over my regular sight), a joint coming out of socket or a bone splintering and breaking, or any of a number of things. Disturbing is a massive understatement. My imagination has been so honed and exercised that it has taken a life of its own.
But on the plus side, I can come up with some truly inspired ideas for stories.
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Post by Ally on May 12, 2010 15:22:56 GMT
(Happy ending at the end though - the main girl wakes up, finds out it's a premonition, and stops the initial rape/pregnancy from happening. Then she and two other girls go off with the other male lead for a long vacation in South America.) D'oh Tangent, not the "I woke up and it was all a dream" ending! ;D My favourite scene to write in my big damn trilogy was when one character confessed his love to another character, but in a way that was SO badly done and full of shouting and angst and embarrassment and guilt-tripping and disaster, and it set them back for a really long time. That was fun. So mostly I emotionally torment my characters, but there is also a fair bit of fighting and death.
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Post by tangent on May 12, 2010 15:25:53 GMT
Actually, it was more of "an angel sent me back in time to stop the Apocalypse from occurring" than "a dream" (especially as the start of the dream DOES almost happen - the possession at least, though the main character is able to stop that and change the future). What really stopped me from writing it was trying to figure out how to keep it under 50K words. I toyed briefly with a diary/log format, but finally gave up.
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Post by Emily on May 12, 2010 20:21:16 GMT
My favourite scene to write in my big damn trilogy was when one character confessed his love to another character, but in a way that was SO badly done and full of shouting and angst and embarrassment and guilt-tripping and disaster, and it set them back for a really long time. That was fun. So mostly I emotionally torment my characters, but there is also a fair bit of fighting and death. Are you still mauling them with dramatic irony ie... the artist ends up blind etc etc...
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Post by tangent on May 12, 2010 20:24:21 GMT
Ooooh, there's a thought! Giving an antagonist a maul (an iron one, naturally!) to use in mauling them! =^-^= So. Real tears? Or is Sparkle trying to manipulate Dan again? ^^ Personally? I think they're real. And Dan's about to turn Sparkle against the protagonists. Way to go, Dan!
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Post by wanderer on May 12, 2010 20:55:46 GMT
Must try really hard not to be angry at Dan. Must try... He doesn't know all the stuff we know and have discussed since the last update. He's getting a call from Sparkle (who he hates) at a time when he REALLY doesn't need to deal with normal Sparkle, and so he's taking out a bit of frustration on her. He doesn't know the truth... it's not his fault... But if he undoes the character development that I felt and Tangent went and wrote a review about I shall become VERY ANGRY. There may be violence involved.
Well, maybe only "rather" angry instead of "very" angry, but still. I LIKE seeing characters develop in good ways, and the idea of a school bully who could grow through experiences to eventually perhaps even become a friend to the heroes appeals to me very strongly. I don't want that chance ruined now, almost before it got started.
In other news, Dan... she is where you're going. You could at LEAST try to get useful information out of her. THINK, Dan. You're letting the werewolf ruin your higher thought processes again.
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Post by Ally on May 12, 2010 22:22:34 GMT
Are you still mauling them with dramatic irony ie... the artist ends up blind etc etc... Naw, I got rid of those bits a while ago, I realised how cheesy it was, and the story didn't need it. That's the problem with writing first drafts when you're thirteen and rewriting them endlessly for the next ten years...you have to hope the whole thing isn't being propped up by something daft that you thought was awesome when you were younger.
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Post by tangent on May 13, 2010 3:31:25 GMT
Okay. Yes, I wrote a review on Sparkle and her "character growth" but I do need to play Devil's Advocate here. We've seen all of one page of Sparkle trying to escape and of breaking down. We've seen her still snarky and defiant. And I'm fairly certain that Sparkle hasn't really changed that much. She's been fleshed out further and has evolved a little, but she's still the unpleasant young lady we all know and love so much. =^-^=
That said? Dan is well within his rights to tell her where to go. There is a saying: you reap what you sow. Well, Sparkle planted a bitter crop, starting when she started dating Daniel. The boy didn't smile ONCE while they were dating. So I can't say that I blame him for not caring about Sparkle's situation.
In addition, Daniel's got a problem with a girl he rather likes, who flirts back with him and who treats him fairly nicely... but who his packmate has a significant crush on. The Code of Guyhood states that he can't go out with An because Keti is interested in him. Never mind that An doesn't seem interested in Keti (at least, until the Plot decides to twist about An and trip her up. Mischievous things, plots. ^^)
Finally... Dan has rather mixed feelings about Sparkle. He's also had a very bad day. Sparkle's call is the icing on the cake, and it's not a yummy cake either.
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Post by Emily on May 13, 2010 8:57:01 GMT
says Jin. One thing I'm going to pick you guys up on is that you take the things characters say as canon fact. Remember these are teenagers, they love to add melodrama, tell the story from their own perspective, lie, embellish the truth even more than grownups do. We've not yet seen the whole dan/sparkle story, only Jin's interpretation. Iordan says Magical girls can't beat faeries in a fight... but I wouldn't bet on it.
The only *facts* we have at this point in the story is that Daniel and Sparkle act as if they despise each other, but are obviously still very much linked by past events.
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Post by tangent on May 13, 2010 10:33:42 GMT
Oh, it's obvious that Daniel got something out of his relationship with Sparkle. And I'm sure that when he was alone with Sparkle, if they were being affectionate, he'd probably be smiling at her. But Jin wouldn't be there for that. And Jin probably remembers the last part of the relationship, when things were going sour, rather than its start when things were probably less stressed and more enjoyed.
I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate. Thus if someone defends Sparkle, I have to point out how evil she is and that she deserves every single misery she's gotten. If someone goes after her, then I point out her good qualities. (DD, I think. And pretty hair. Her ass wasn't much to look at though. ^^)
The whole Dan/Sparkle relationship had some emotion to it. Otherwise, Sparkle wouldn't be as... spiteful toward Dan after it was broken off. She was spurn. So to hell with being Ms. Nice Girl. ^^ (Well, comparatively speaking to how she is now.)
Fortunately, the Cherry storyline should give us a glimpse of the near-end of the Dan/Sparkle relationship. As a newcomer, Steve will have the most impartial look at how things were.
Oh, and a magical girl CAN defeat a faerie in a fight; but it takes a lot of work, being beaten down several times, and a final love-powered spell that overcomes the fae's defenses (or the fae having fun and pretending to be taken down because hey, it's a good story and the fae enjoys Japanese manga as much as the next reader).
I really need to get Brigid into this forum. Two people debating and you and Ally trying not to give away the game isn't quite enough. ^^;;
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Post by wanderer on May 13, 2010 11:10:41 GMT
I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate. Yes, I've noticed this over the past five years or so. I, on the other hand, am easily swayed by certain emotional presentations. Sparkle displayed, finally, some positive traits and what appeared to be genuine despair and/or anguish. Thus I instictively get upset at Dan for being short with her. I already said it's not his fault because there's no way he would know what we've seen, but that logic is not very compelling to my emotions, which right now are feeling sympathetic towards Sparkle (now there's a phrase some people probably thought would never be uttered around here...). Er... Iordan says Magical Girls CAN'T beat faeries in a fight. At least he does here. I found that a little odd, personally, because if true it seems the MGs are pretty much wasting their lives at the dojo.
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Post by Emily on May 13, 2010 11:41:47 GMT
sorry I misspelled it... anyway, the point I'm making is that even the good guys will put their own version of events forward.
And yes you do get to see the tail end of the relationship in Cherry, in all its horrid, teen hormone driven glory.
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